Sept.-Oct. 1998 News Archives
Distributed via e-mail by CNV News Service.. These articles may be used in any manner to the glory of God, and as an aid in the discernment of the times [Andy Neckar, CNV News Service, PO Box J, Hico, TX 76457
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ARE ALL TO BE SAVED?
RFGC (Refraining from God’s Creation)
WHAT GOD? WHOSE CHURCH?
JERRY SPRINGER—THE DEVIL’S RIGHT HAND MAN.
Used to be-Or Never?
Scientific Journals or The Book?
Darkness in a catechism: Light in the Bible
Un-Conscience of Self-Consciousness
Execution in Effigy
Paulks almost believable
Pope Plays up to Jews.
SALVATION THROUGH SINCERITY?
OUT OF FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE
FANTASTIC REVIVAL?
THE BODY OF CHRIST verses THE TENT OF UNITED METHODISM.
"Christians and Hindus: Together in Hope".
ARE ALL TO BE SAVED?
Charismatic evangelists Charles and Frances Hunter, known as the "Happy Hunters," have conducted censuses in 23 countries as they endeavor to "take a census of the world." Charles claims God gave him this vision in 1990. An early U.S. census in 1992 received full support from the Southern Baptist Home Mission Board, Campus Crusade, and other non-charismatic groups, as well as the Catholic Evangelization 2000 group (NIRR, 9/7/92)."Pollsters" ask four religious questions, the last one being, "Did you know that there are two kinds of people in the world: Those who are saved and those who are about to be? Which one are you?" If the respondent says he is the second type of person, the census taker immediately asks if the person would like to repeat a prayer of repentance and faith in Christ. More than 50 million people have prayed a sinner's prayer--47 million of those decisions have been reported since November. The highest response rates have been in India (18 million), the Philippines (16 million), Peru (6 million), Ghana (6 million), and Honduras (2 million) (Charisma, 9/98).
[Editor] What? Say that again! --There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who are "saved" and those who are "about to be". Pardon me, but I taught the Bible teaches that the two kinds of people in the world are the "saved" and the "lost".
I don’t like this folks. This teaches that ALL will be saved. Another thing I don’t like about this article is that the Bible doesn’t teach that a prayer of repentance and prayer of faith in Christ will save anyone. It would be much better for a person "never" to pray a "salvation prayer", than for one to erroneously believe he is saved. It difficult for one who thinks he is saved to "ever" respond favorably to the gospel of Christ.? (Rom 1:16)
Hey.-A person who knows he is lost in sin, or one who is not sure, can be reached with the gospel of Christ (Rom 1:16) much easier than one who "thinks" he is already saved.
These "religious" pollsters are sending folks to hell in the Name of Christ.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------RFGC (Refraining from God’s Creation)
The People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) are on a protest tour this summer to over 70 cities. The target: the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile. Protesters hold signs that say "Pigs Are Friends--Not Food." The organizer says, "The Wienermobile is the meat industry's Joe Camel."PETA claims God is on its side. This summer the group launched an ad titled, "Jesus Was a Vegetarian." PETA even says that Jesus was crucified for opposing animal sacrifice in the temple. "Christians should extend the message that 'God is love' by not eating his creation," proclaims PETA's Bruce Friedrich (World, 8/18/98).
[Editor] I thought that after the last comments of mine, you folks could stand a litter humor, so I included this article.
We are not to eat meat (animals) because God created them? What about vegetables?
Gen. 1:11-12. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
What can I say? God has spoken.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------WHAT GOD? WHOSE CHURCH?
Dancing may be a useful ingredient in worship for the twenty-first century, suggests Audrey Malphurs, head of the church-planting department at Dallas Theological Seminary. Malphurs's new book Planting Growing Churches for the 21st Century claims that to survive and grow, churches must have a "holistic, authentic worship that makes a difference." The worship must be "culturally relevant" and "creative and innovative." Malphurs defines innovative worship: "Innovative worship consists of such things as skits, drama, audio-visual presentations, creative dance, and the use of video in preaching" (Fundamentalist Digest, 7-8/98).[Editor] This editor doesn’t have a "brand name", or a bunch of the alphabet before or after my name, but I DO know how to "grow a church".
We don’t have to "plant" a church. The CHURCH is already present. The CHURCH fellowships and worships God as a New Testament CHURCH. If the church has to change, what god do they worship? My God is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Heb 13:8) My worship should stay the same as my God does.
God’s church survives and grows in THIS MANNER.
Barbanas preached the gospel of Christ. --Acts 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
The Apostles preached the gospel of Christ.--Acts 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.-- Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
When Peter preached the gospel of Christ.-- Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
These are some of the church growth gurus which were head of the church-planting department in the first century. HEY! It worked for them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JERRY SPRINGER—THE DEVIL’S RIGHT HAND MAN.
The Jerry Springer Show, the oft-criticized talk show that mixes fistfights and confessions of deviancy, descended to new depths when it prepared an episode on bestiality titled "I Married a Horse," scheduled to be telecast May 22. The episode was pulled, however. When asked whether the episode would be telecast in the future, a source close to the show said, "No comment."
According to Nielson ratings, about 750,000 young people between the ages of 12 and 17 are watching Jerry Springer each day (SBC Life, 8/98; Washington Inquirer, 6/15/98).[Editor] God says: Lev 18:22-23 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. (unnatural bestiality)
What can I say? I say, does bestiality pertain to any sex act that is not between "man" and "woman"?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Used to be-Or Never?
"I used to be a fundamentalist Christian," says Mike Likvan of Chicago. But then he says, "I opened my mind and started listening to my 'inner voice.' " He credits his change to Conversations With God, Book I, by Neale Donald Walsch. The book has stayed on the best-seller lists for two solid years. It has become the new "gospel" for a generation mistrustful of organized religion.In the book, God supposedly tells Walsch, "Listen to your feelings. Listen to your Highest Thoughts. Listen to your experience. Whenever any one of these differs from what you've been told by your teachers or read in your books, forget the words. Words are the least reliable purveyor of Truth" (Moody, 9-10/98).
[Editor] Forget the words? Forget Walsch’s words.
Col 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
And listen to THE WORD.
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
How can one think of the WORD with first hearing it or reading it? How can one experience the WORD without believing it?
The WORD is the ONLY purveyor of TRUTH.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Scientific Journals or The Book?
Americans have much stronger belief in the Bible's story of human origins than do other industrialized nations, says an "astounded" political scientist about his recent study. About 45% of Americans believe that God created man "pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years." Another 40% believe in "theistic evolution"--human evolution over millions of years with God's guidance. Only 10% of Americans hold the Darwinian view. By comparison, only 7% of those surveyed in Great Britain accept the biblical account.Professor George Bishop of the University of Cincinnati concluded about his study, "We don't stack up very well as a nation. Religious belief tends to be inversely correlated with what most scientists say is simple fact." The groups most likely to accept the biblical account were women, older Americans, the less well-educated, Southerners, blacks, and fundamentalist Protestants (Washington Times, 8/22/98).
[Editor] Theistic Evolution? —one day is to the Lord as millions of years? What did God do, change His mind after He said that every living creature that moves should bring forth abundantly AFTER THEIR KIND? This is everything that moves in the water and on the land. (Gen 1:21; 1:24) God changed His mind and didn’t tell us? Wonder if He changed His mind about our salvation and didn’t tell us that either? Maybe we should ask the scientists.
It is not strange that this survey states that those most likely to accept the biblical account were women (the weaker vessels- 1 Peter 3:7) and the less well-educated. (1 Cor 1:20; 1:27) Doesn’t the "world in general " consider the southern hillbillies and blacks the "less-well educated? How about the "cultist" fundamentalist Protestant". The world says these folks just pay to much attention to "The Book".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Darkness in a catechism: Light in the Bible
Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and other non-Christians might be destined for eternal life, says a proposed catechism by the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). "How God will deal with those who don't know or follow Christ, but who follow another tradition, we cannot finally say," the catechism says in one place. "We can say, however, that God is gracious and merciful."Unlike some catechisms of old, where declarations of faith were meant to be memorized, this proposed catechism is conversational in tone and does not claim to have all the answers. "Will all human beings be saved? How will God deal with the followers of other religions?" The catechism does not give a certain answer to these questions, but states only God knows if there are any limits to salvation. "And no judge could possibly be more gracious than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (Midnight Call, 9/98).
[Editor] A catechism verses the Bible. The Bible has all the answers. 2 Cor 3:5; The catechism "does not claim to have all the answers".
So—let’s turn to God’s Word, the Bible.
Will all human beings be saved? NO. Rom 9:27; 11:5
How will God deal with the followers of other religions?" Acts 4:12
Yeah-the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). says: "only God knows if there are any limits to salvation". What about me? I know too. God gave me the answer. If they don’t want to replace their proposed catechism with the Bible they should consider replacing it with me, and you too, if you know what I know and believe what I believe. (The Bible is the True Word of God and has all the answers regarding salvation and godly living)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Un-Conscience of Self-Consciousness
Princeton University has hired a bioethics professor who advocates animal rights and rejects the sanctity of human life. Australian Peter Singer, 52, argues that children with birth defects have less moral value than many animals and can be euthanized."That a being is a human being, in the sense of a member of the species homo sapiens, is not relevant to the wrongness of killing it," Singer writes in his book Practical Ethics. "It is, rather, characteristics like rationality, autonomy and self-consciousness that make a difference. Defective infants can lack these characteristics. Killing a defective infant is not morally equivalent to killing a person. Sometimes it is not wrong at all" (Christian News, 9/21/98).
[Editor] This professor is not conscience of the fact that he is hell bound as sure as hell. He has no rationality (sound mind) and autonomy. (freedom-liberation) His self-conscienceless is seriously flawed. He has no conscienceless of his real destination.
He perfectly fits the description he gives of a defective infant. You know what’s gonna happen to him unless he comes to repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ? (Acts 20:21)
God’s gonna kill him, that’s what. (Rev 21:8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Execution in Effigy
506 years later, Christopher Columbus faces trial and 'execution'
Tegucigalpa, Honduras (ENI). History finally caught up with Christopher Columbus yesterday, 12 October. After a Honduran jury, including two religious leaders, found the Italian explorer guilty of a series of crimes - ranging from theft and rape to genocide - he was "executed" by two Lenca indigenous warriors who fired a dozen arrows into an image of one of the world's most famous explorers whose reputation has become a matter of debate and controversy in recent years. (Ecumenical News International News Highlights 13 October 1998)[Editor] This senseless "execution" doesn’t surprise me at all. The Roman Catholic Church has been doing this to Jesus Christ for almost 2000 years. They have been executing Him on their altars, and get this—after they sacrifice Him on the Roman altar, they EAT HIS FLESH. Revolting, isn’t it?
Mormons accuse Him of polygamy. The Journal of Discourses, shows that the Mormons once taught that Jesus had many wives... the two sisters of Lazarus and Mary Magdalene, because Jesus couldn't become a god unless he was married. ("Mormon Doctrine", by Bruce R. McConkie, pp. 117-118) Some New Evangelicals teach this very same thing about Jesus Christ.
The majority of "religious" leaders teach that Jesus Christ was a liar. Most "churches" today hold that the Bible is partly fact and partly fable. (another story, another time)
Yeah, folks, Jesus Christ has been the subject of debate and controversy for almost 2000 years. I know Christ needs no defenders. He will deal with His critics in due time, (even so, come, Lord Jesus) but it sure makes me feel good to contend for the faith He once delivered to the saints through His Holy Spirit. (Jude 1:3) AMEN?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Paulks Almost Believable
(excerpts from The Denver Post Sept 3 1998)John Paulk is a professional heterosexual. And he's very good at his job. The former drag queen and self-proclaimed alcoholic, drug abuser and promiscuous gay man has found happiness in Colorado Springs with his wife, Anne, and their 20-month-old son, Timothy.
John who studied performing arts in high school and college in Ohio, now works as the point man for the ex-gay movement. He is chairman of Exodus North America and a homosexuality and gender analyst for Focus on the Family.
Anne, a former marathon runner and lesbian, attributes her early sexual orientation to a hatred of men spawned by being sexually molested by a teenager when she was 4 years old. John and Anne met at an Exodus meeting in San Rafael, Calf., seven years ago.
Both turned to the Christian program to go straight. After six years of living openly as a homosexual and three years in Exodus, John said, "Out of nowhere I experienced a tremendous powerful sexual attraction to Anne."
The transformation was equally dramatic for her, he said. Just look at them now on the cover of Newsweek, featured in People magazine, on "Oprah" and "Good Morning America," and in full-page ads in nine major newspapers across the country. What could be better?
[Editor] I wonder what’s going on here? Is there something rotten in Denmark? (old saying) Where is Christ and His salvation in all of this? What power has a "Christian program"? Back in 1981 I turned to the AA program to sober up, but that didn’t save me. It DID change my lifestyle though. Instead of a drunk lost sinner I was then a sober lost sinner. I was saved out of the Roman Church in 1991. It was the gospel of Christ that transformed me at that time. (1991)
What does a "tremendous powerful sexual attraction" have to do with salvation? Nowhere is the salvation earned for us by Christ Jesus mentioned in ANY article I read about this couple. Perhaps and possibly so, this couple is transformed out of the homosexual lifestyle and that fact ALONE is good. But these people were hired by a supposed "Christian" ministry. I simply ask: WHERE IS CHRIST IN ALL OF THIS?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Pope Plays up to Jews.
(excerpts from the Detroit News 10/11/98)
Edith Stein, the Orthodox Jew-turned-Catholic nun whom Pope John Paul II is elevating to sainthood today, once offered her life in atonement for the sins of her "unbelieving" people.Today, those words of Stein, who was killed in the gas chambers of Auschwitz, make Catholics as uncomfortable as they make Jews angry.
Born on Yom Kippur into an Orthodox Jewish family, Stein was an atheist before she joined the Catholic church in 1922. Before her conversion, she built a reputation in the phenomenology school of philosophy said to be important to the current pope.
In 1938, Kristallnacht, the three-day Nazi attack on Jews and Jewish institutions in Germany, made clear the danger in Germany. Stein fled to Holland with her sister, Rosa, who also had followed her into Catholicism.Once there, she wrote the spiritual last will and testament required of Carmelite nuns. In it, she offered her life "for the sins of the unbelieving people, so the Lord will be accepted by his own."
When the 1942 order came sending Holland's Jewish converts to Auschwitz, Stein took her sister by the hand. "Come, Rosa. We're going for our people."
As Stein's canonization approaches, Remi Hoeckman, secretary of the Vatican's commission for relations with Jews, said it would be wrong to focus exclusively on one of the most divisive aspects -- her own statement of atonement for the sins of her "unbelieving people."
[Editor] Even the Christ rejecting Jews and the multiple ways to salvation Roman Catholics know this is wrong.
The spiritually blinded Jews are looking for a messiah from the line of David, not an atheist Roman Catholic Jewish woman, to rule and restore the kingdom to Israel.
The Catholics already have a co-redeemer in Mary, and they don’t want another woman taking her place. This Pope is so disposed to leading the various religious faiths into ecumenism that he is "really" manifesting the spiritual blindness of his soul in his most recent actions. Pope John Paul II canonizes a woman that even the Catholics cannot approve of
The statements made by Edith Stein, "after she converted to Catholicism" shows her to be an atheist STILL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------SALVATION THROUGH SINCERITY?
On Wednesday, Sept. 9th 1998 at the general audience in St. Peter's Square, the Pope spoke on the theme of "The Spirit of God and the 'Seeds of Truth' in non-Christian Religions.""The 'seeds of truth'," said John Paul II, are "'the effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body'," Pope Paul explained that "in all authentic religious experiences, the most characteristic manifestation is prayer. ... Every true prayer is inspired by the Holy Spirit, Who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person."
"Through the practice of what is good in their own religious traditions, and following the dictates of their consciences, members of other religions positively respond to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even though they may not recognize Him as their Savior."
"The attitude of the Church and of individual Christians with regard to other religions is characterized by sincere respect, deep kindness, and also, where it is possible and appropriate, cordial collaboration" (Vatican Information Service 9/9/98)
[Editor] This statement teaches that "all" will come to salvation, "through sincerity". God’s Word (the Bible) tells us that those who "hear" and "believe" the "gospel of Christ" (Rom 1:16) receive the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is present in the heart of "every person"? That sure is a mystery to me. I wonder from what god this revelation came to "Holy Mother Church".
Notice that "what is good in their own religious traditions" is the power of their god unto salvation. Jesus Christ is not being "taken out" of religious teachings, He is being made into a "non-essential". The world will come to believe in, and accept a non-essential Jesus Christ, just as I have come to believe in George Washington. (American Patriot and first U.S. President)
You know what my God tells me about "cordial collaboration" with the enemies of Christ?
2 Cor 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
Hey! I believe that. Don’t you? Send Your Son soon Lord God, and put a stop to this mess. AMEN?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------OUT OF FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE
An Anglican priest is leaving his denomination because it ordains women as priests -- including his wife. Fred Bonham, 61, opposes the policy of ordaining women priests and is becoming a Catholic, Catholic World News said. His wife, Valerie, serves in his parish as a deacon, but plans to be ordained as a priest in December. The situation is endangering the marriage, but Bonham remains supportive of his wife, he said. "You must be tolerant of the other person's convictions. She is doing what she wants to do and I must allow her that freedom." (Religion Today-9/2/98)[Editor] This whole story is preposterous. This man is separating because of one false system into a den of false systems. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t mean this to imply that there is only ONE false system in this denomination, but it is the one reason given.
One more thing. The man is the head of the woman, and he must NOT allow her the freedom he speaks of. (1 Cor 11:3; Eph 5:23-24)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------FANTASTIC REVIVAL?
North Wales is experiencing a spiritual revival. Beaumaris, a coastal town, has about 601 homes, and 130 people became Christians during four services at a local church, Joel News said. About two-thirds of those who came to the services are local people who rarely attend church. People also reported that they have been healed of physical infirmities such as blindness during the services. "Such a response to the gospel has not been seen in this area since the days of the Welsh revivals," Northwest Revival News said. ." (Religion Today-9/2/98)[Editor] FANTASTIC—UNHEARD OF—but then again I have never heard of REAL mass healing of physical infirmities such as blindness during the church services either. Pardon me, but I don’t think the Welsh revivals conducted these mass healing church services. No signs and wonders—no conversions.
Hey-whose spirit is this doing the healing? I mean, a SELECT FEW here and there, and ONLY in public. Sure Christ healed in public, but didn’t he heal EVERYBODY that came?
Matt 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing EVERY (emphasis mine) sickness and every disease among the people.
See "WHO ARE THE BELIEVERS FOLLOWED BY SIGNS IN MARK 16?" under Bible Studies on the On-Line Biblical Resources Page.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------THE BODY OF CHRIST verses THE TENT OF UNITED METHODISM.
(Article taken from United Methodist News Service 9/17/98)United Methodists continue to discuss the impact of a decision on homosexual unions released Aug. 11 by the church's Judicial Council.
The nine-member "supreme court" ruled that United Methodist clergy who conduct homosexual unions or allow such ceremonies to be held in United Methodist Churches can be charged with disobeying the discipline of the church. Prior to the ruling, some had argued that since the language was in the church's Social Principles, it was not enforceable law. However, the Judicial Council said it "has the effect of church law, notwithstanding its placement. . . and therefore, governs the conduct of the ministerial office."
[CNV Editor] The New Covenant replaced the Old upon the death of Christ. (Heb 9:14-16) The New Covenant instituted by Christ, (Heb 8:13) with Christ as the Head, (Eph 1:22) is to continue until Jesus comes for the CHURCH. (1 Thess 4:16-17) NO OTHER LAW IS TO BE PREACHED. (Gal 1:8-9) The "Law of Moses" was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14) (but the UMC has enacted a "New Law of Methodism". (2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 4:1) This "other gospel" has the UMC "supreme court" as it’s head.
The issue arose within the denomination last September following the celebration of a "union" of two women by the Rev. Jimmy Creech, then pastor of First United Methodist Church in Omaha, Neb. His bishop warned him that doing so would be a violation of church law. A church trial failed to reach the necessary two-thirds majority to find Creech guilty, but bishops of the church's eight-state South Central Jurisdiction, including Texas, asked the Judicial Council to rule on the matter.
While much informal discussion has taken place since the decision, the North Texas Conference is the only one of the 66 regional bodies in the United States to employ a "day of listening" approach to the issue.
Meeting Saturday, Sept. 2, in Denton, Texas, some 500 United Methodists spent the day listening for God's will as it specifically relates to the 10 words newly defined as church law: "Ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions shall not be conducted by our ministers and shall not be conducted in our churches."
[Editor] On one hand I commend the UMC for this decision, but on the other, I abhor the fact that the UMC "high court" had to vote on whether to obey a God given command. You can "see" that the UMC bases their faith, or should I say religion, on "church law, rather than "God’s law".
[Editor] By the way. God’s will is clearly defined in the Bible. Do we "study" to show ourselves approved unto God…, (2 Timothy 2:15) or listen? If we spend out time "listening" for His will, we may hear someone or something else.
Bishop William B. Oden, in opening remarks Sept. 12 acknowledged that the issue under discussion is at the heart of many concerns across the church and said that, through this special day, conference lay and clergy leaders were "putting their concerns on top of the table."
The Rev. Leighton Farrell, superintendent of the Dallas South District, summarized changes in church law regarding homosexuality since creation of the United Methodist Church in 1968. He noted that the subject first entered the Book of Discipline when the 1972 General Conference adopted a section of the Social Principles declaring homosexual practice "incompatible with Christian teaching."
Subsequent conferences have prohibited funding of homosexual causes, denied ordination to any self-avowed practicing homosexual persons and, as of the most recent (1996) General Conference, prohibited the celebration of homosexual unions within United Methodist Churches and by United Methodist clergy.
At the same time, United Methodist policy recognizes that "homosexual persons no less than heterosexual persons" are individuals of sacred worth and that all persons need the ministry and guidance of the church. While the church officially condemns the practice of homosexuality as "incompatible with Christian Teaching", it also affirms that "God's grace is available to all" and commits the church to be in ministry "for and with all persons."
[Editor] "Well, here I go again. Opening the door even wider to accusing comments of bitterness, misunderstanding, a lack of love, and what have you. But as the truth is not well received in many cases, nevertheless it "will" be told."
[Editor] "To state that "any" person is of sacred worth is amoral. Christ did not establish the CHURCH to minister to, and guide unrepentant sinners. Christ commanded to "convert" them. After "conversion" the church can minister to and guide them and teach them and baptize them."
Deeply personal statements consumed most of the remainder of the morning session in Denton's First United Methodist Church sanctuary. Invited speakers who expressed divergent views on homosexuality, inclusiveness with the church and the authority of scripture were the Rev. John Thornburg, Northaven United Methodist Church in Dallas; Laura Echols-Richte, director of adult ministries at St. Andrews United Methodist Church in Plano; the Rev. Fred Durham, Tyler Street United Methodist Church in Dallas; and the Rev. Richard Dunagin, Lake Highlands United Methodist Church in Dallas.
The four also participated on a panel with Oden as moderator. Following lunch, participants divided into 35 groups of 10 to 12 individuals for discussion. Leaders of the small groups were given a sheet with 14 suggestions, including, "Remember the purpose of the day is to listen, not to reach some conclusion or decision." The leaders were also advised to "allow freedom for passion and emotion, but to try to keep persons listening."
Oden said all participants would receive copies of responses recorded from the small-group discussions. He told a brief news conference between morning and afternoon sessions that the day had shown that North Texas United Methodists are "on the same journey but going by different paths." He also said he prays that all can remain within the United Methodist "tent" and that gay and lesbian United Methodists can know that they are
[Editor] "the CHURCH that Christ founded ministers to the saints (believers of the gospel of Christ. Rom 1:16) Unrepentant lost sinners (those living willfully and habitually in a "life" of sin) are not added to the church, only the "saved" are. A local church that welcomes and fully accepts homosexuals in the life and ministry of the church is not Christ’s CHURCH. They are not in the BODY OF CHRIST they are in the TENT OF UNITED METHODISM.
Other annual conferences had similar events following the Judicial Council ruling but nothing of the magnitude of North Texas. About 70 people attended a discussion meeting hosted by Michigan Area Bishop Donald A. Ott Aug. 16 at University United Methodist Church in Lansing. Ott spent nearly 75 minutes talking about the decision. Tension in discussing the issue was obvious, right from the start, according to Erik Alsgaard, editor of the Michigan Christian Advocate.
"This decision extends language that hurts," said Dale Myrtle, Bay City, the father of two homosexual children. "This church has a homophobia. All too often the majority shuns the minority and abides in ignorance," he said.
Those comments drew the ire of the Rev. John Grenfell Jr., a retired pastor, who said he has trouble dialoguing "with someone who thinks I'm ignorant. We have some honest differences and how we administer that is crucial. If we're going to have the pluralism we pride ourselves on, we better find ways to manage it."
The bishop pleaded with United Methodists to stay connected. "Do not be dismissive of what others have to say," he said. "Be in dialogue with others. Stay connected with the whole body. Value the tension. I want to be in a church like that."
[Editor] "What body, and what church? The Body of Christ or the Tent of United Methodism?"
The Rev. Jerry Toshalis of Trinity Church in Grand Rapids said the Judicial Council ruling raises a serious question. "I have not been asked yet to do a gay wedding. On the surface, this decision seems clear: I am told what I can't do. That is not sufficient. I cannot, in good conscience, say (to a gay couple), 'the church says no'."
[Editor] This "Rev" Jerry cannot in "good conscience" say no to a "gay" couple, but he can in a "wicked conscience". No problem
The Rev. Tim Boal of Montague said he was troubled by the "lack of symmetry" in the decision: "I can bless somebody's iguana or their dog, but if I bless their love, I'm gone."
Making a plea for United Methodists to listen to the guidance of the Holy Spirit was the Rev. Les Longden, pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Lansing. "We need to put issues (like this one) on the table and discuss it. Consensus in the church, though, is not the same thing as consensus in the world. Consensus in the body of Christ is to not rush to judgment. We need to listen to the Spirit's guidance; it's something (the church) has that others don't."
[Editor] The UMC blesses pets and icons just like their forerunner the Roman Catholic Church?
The local United Methodist Churches which hold to the belief systems of this article may have a spirit guiding them, but it is definitely not the Holy Spirit of God.
[Editor] THE UMC spirit says homosexuals are welcomed and fully accepted in the life and ministries of the church.
The Holy Spirit of God says,
Rom 1:24-28. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
* Information for the following article came from an article in the North Texas United Methodist Reporter, written by John A. Lovelace, editor emeritus of the Dallas-based United Methodist Reporter, and an article in the Michigan Christian Advocate, written by Erik Alsgaard, editor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Vatican’s Title "Christians and Hindus: Together in Hope".
Editor’s Title "Rome & Hindus: Together in Pagan Pageantry: Idolatry of Idols not Idle.Cardinal Francis Arinze, president of the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, expresses "the best wishes of Catholics throughout the world." In his annual Message to Hindus on the occasion of Diwali, the festival of light.
"Mutual visits and dialogue on common issues and on the challenges which our world faces as it stands on the threshold of the new millennium can help Christians and Hindus come to a greater realization of their shared responsibilities," he said.
He goes on to say, "the lamp of hope must always remain alight, indicating the path to a better future" Because "in the world of today is armed conflict between different countries. Civil wars, acts of terrorism, injustice which is all the time widening the gap between rich and poor, hunger, the lack of shelter, unemployment especially among young people, globalization without solidarity, the heavy burden of external debt, the problem of drugs, immorality, and abortion".
He goes on to talk of hope as the ability to see "signs of hope" such as the "growing solidarity among people in our time," (ecumenism) and the return of the search for transcendence; (perfection)
He states, "We Christians and Hindus, each on our own respective (particular or individual) spiritual paths, can work together to give increased help to humanity. Yet first we must accept our differences and show each other mutual respect and true love."
[Editor] This is an example of true ecumenism: The path to a "One World Religion". You see, religion has "many" ways to attain spiritual or moralistic paths. But listen folks. Religion is not the ‘faith" once delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3) There is no saving power in "religion." Only "faith" in the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, "alone", offers salvation to those who "believe in that work"
Now some words uncovering the theme of this article, the Hindu feast of Diwali, known also as the "festival of lights."
The festival of `Diwali’ or The festival of lights. In the Hindu religious texts, it is mentioned as the festival of `Dipabali’. Diwali is a national festival specifically for Hindus, Buddhists and Jains.
Diwali, a national holiday in India, is celebrated to mark the victory of good over evil. The holiday is celebrated with firecrackers and lamps illuminating all of the houses throughout India.
Diwali is one of the most important Hindu holidays, and the holiday finds its roots in the Hindu epic of Ramayana.
Ramayana is the story of the Indian God Rama, who was sent into exile for 14 years. While he was in exile, his wife Sita was kidnapped by Ravana, another god. To get his wife back, Rama had to fight Ravana. Rama won, and when he returned home with Sita, his victory and return were celebrated, marking the victory of good over evil,
There are seven major religions in India, and while Diwali is basically a Hindu festival, it is celebrated by most of the people in India's 23 states. The people irrespective of their religions celebrate Diwali.
Approximately 150 people attended the celebration of Diwali, the Festival of Lights, at a program hosted by the Indian Student Association at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio, reported the "The Post", an Independent Daily NewspaperPagans’ associating themselves with pagans and speaking highly of each other is not my great concern. My great concern is that the leaders of the Christian churches are falling away from the faith once delivered to the saints, (Jude 1:3) and taking the people with them as they go home to Rome. And folks, Rome is leading the world into the one world religion of the antichrist.
As the Roman Catholic Church explores ecumenical paths to "all religions" the Christian churches explore ecumenical paths to the "Roman Catholic Church." I will venture to say that 90% of all "Christian ministries" are pursuing this path.
I have a subscriber in India that sent me newspaper clippings from the "Sunday Times of India", Sept. 6 1998, of this great Hindu festival. More than a million people turned out for this festival in Mumbai alone. (formally Bombay India
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